TONY JONES: Tony Abbott on another matter, have you met Archbishop Pell during the election campaign?
TONY ABBOTT: Not that I can recall.
TONY JONES: Not that you can recall, because we believe that you've had at least one meeting with him quite recently?
You don't recall that?
TONY ABBOTT: Well, when?
Where?
TONY JONES: At the presbytery in Sydney.
TONY ABBOTT: Ah, actually now that you do mention it, I did met with Cardinal Pell.
So what?
Why shouldn't I meet with Cardinal Pell?
TONY JONES: Why couldn't you recall meeting him, I think, 10 days ago?
TONY ABBOTT: Look, whenever it was, so what?
Why shouldn't I meet Cardinal Pell.
Cardinal Pell is a fine man.
He made a very good statement the other day about the Labor Party's policy, why shouldn't I meet with him?
TONY JONES: Well, the reason we're asking about this, obviously, because your behind the-scenes activities in the '98 election were quite renowned and I'm wondering is there any possibility that in your discussions with Cardinal Pell which you couldn't recall a moment ago - in those discussions did you actually bring up the issue of private schools?
TONY ABBOTT: Nup.
TONY JONES: Not at all?
TONY ABBOTT: Nup.
TONY JONES: What issues were discussed?
TONY ABBOTT: Well, Tony, I may well have been going to confession to Cardinal Pell, I may well have been seeking pastoral counselling from Cardinal Pell.
What's so sinister about that?
Cardinal Pell is one of the greatest churchmen that Australia has seen.
I am a very imperfect Catholic.
Why shouldn't I go and seek counsel?
Why shouldn't I go and trespass on the time occasionally of someone like Cardinal Pell.
If you spent more time with Cardinal Pell, your life might be more interesting.
TONY JONES: I haven't spent any time at all with Cardinal Pell as it turns out, but that's beside the point.
You're a political operative and the question is not whether he gave you counselling but whether you gave him counselling because only a short time after your visit out came this letter signed by two Archbishops condemning Labor's education policy?
TONY ABBOTT: So you think that I put words into the mouth not only of Cardinal Pell but of Archbishop Jensen?
TONY JONES: I'm simply asking whether that was a matter of your conversations which a moment ago you didn't recall?
TONY ABBOTT: That's a bizarre suggestion.
TONY JONES: Tony Abbott, we'll have to leave it there, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
TONY ABBOTT: Thanks.
