Page 2 of students' questions on Robert Bolt's A Man for All Seasons (74K)

 

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Index

profile of characters affecting the audience Cromwell defining man logic = congruity, consistency, faithfullness, obedience? relevance to teenagers Machiavellian theory Text revision questions More a tragic hero? insulting Norfolk five key symbols a man ahead of his time? common man device no hamartia strike a bargain More's courage most dangerous to society whose are these quotes?

brings history to life profile Alice Margaret's attitude Margaret's philosophy principals compromising principles More's qualities three theme quotes oath title metaphors more on symbolism repugnant to his nature like "To Kill A Mockingbird"? More and Lear More and Hamlet relevance to today Reason vs Passion (Othello) real reason vs apparent reason AMFAS and A Doll's House

More unable to bear office motives and responses in Chelsea visit fair weather friend fatal flaw in More defending Wolsey Cranmer Alice and Meg power relationships strike a bargain with society individual's sense of self buy a man with suffering moretalk1 page moretalk3 page moretalk4 page moretalk5 page moretalk6 page moretalk7 page plan of play

2005: I would like to say thank you very much to take the time and help me out understand the meaning of some of the quotes from A Man For All Seasons. I appreciate it a LOT- not many people would help people over the internet answer questions like you I thank you for the quick response as well you ROCK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! bye 

 

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Hi! I was wondering if you knew three good quotes said by Margaret More and if by chance you knew what is Margaret's philosophy? I'm not quite sure I understand what they are asking. thank you very much. Jennifer

 

I am only thinking aloud now: Margaret is a loyal daughter; She is also educated. More relies on her to understand him She does but also cannot support his decision. This is probably the most painful decision

She also in the film agrees to remove the chain of office from his neck; this means a lot to More. She accepts him in FAITH but does not share his sheer faith She marries Roper. She is Love and Faith personified and so suffers in poverty and "disgrace" More seems to be unaware of these social effects and for this we depart from him and sympathesise with her.

Greg

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Question: discuss the single character you personally find to be the most dangerous to society. Be sure to include ample justification for your selection

 

Choices: sir thomas more, richard rich, thomas cromwell, king henry VIII, howard duke of norfolk, the members of henry's court (collectively).

 

I was going to say king henry because he combined state and church but I can't think of any other things....any help will be much appreciated

 

Yes, do the King; and the Dissolution of the Monasteries act dissolved the monasteries all over England to pay for Henry's court. As a democrat in the 21st century, you might be horrified at Henry's absolutism, rule without control of any kind, rule by fear (of beheading), rule not of law but of whimsy, dividing society by honouring the dishonest, the rapacious, etc. King as enemy of society. An interesting fate, pre Iraq 3/2/03 ?? See discussion at passion

 

But my choice would be Cromwell (Henry's reign of terror ended but Cromwell's types appear today : complete toadies, dishonest, rapacious, threatening torture, bending he laws, having no conscience at all but advantage. They are the most dangerous to society.

 

Others see Rich as the antagonist to Bolt's protagonist; I think not, but he is the diametrically opposite in dramatic terms Rich in his rising fortune at More's great fall, his ascension through lies and betrayals, his fascination with power and wealth and advantage etc. Surely this is destroying the very fabric of trust that society relies on? See corruption and machiavellian and at Prince.

 

The anonymous oligarchies round the throne (the members of henry's court (collectively) and the cowardly bishops too; they can be the most dangerous to society at large in very real ways refusing acces to power, etc.

Greg

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For my English Independent, I've been given this commentary to base a thesis on and am required to compare A.M.F.A.S. and King Lear. I can choose to either agree or disagree with it.

> 'People in all societies strike a bargain by which we accept society's values and moral standards in exchange for a promise of whatever rewards society offers. However, this bargain is constantly tested by corruption within and without, as a person's life and promise are hostages of tainted morality, chance, and the decay of institutions."

> Please help me find some information to base my argument on.

Wow! This is a frightful topic

Take each of these tests one by one and show how More met them

See also http://home.pacific.net.au/~greg.hub/moretalk2.html#lear

Yet I do contest the assumption of the topic that we strike a bargain; explore this and its degrees and consequences. Too often we have no choice e.g., in representative government and majority rule.

More was not into compromises.

Greg

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> I'm an OAC student, and I need to write an essay about the following

> question. " A Man For All Seasons is no tragedy in the Aristotelian sense of the

> word. There is nothing in More's character which can be regarded as his hamartia."

>  

> I have been looking at some Aristotle writings, but I'm getting no

> where fast, can you help me out somehow with this question.

 

Hi there. hamartia is the Greek New Testament work for sin, meaning literally 'not hitting the mark'.

Question says since there is no fatal flaw in More no sin, there is no tragedy in the play.

But you can describe it by a more recent definition in a weaker sense such as in "it is a tragedy the young boy died".

to say that England suffered a tragedy in his death; it was the end of honesty in public life; it was a tragic turn of events, certainly a tragedy that an honest man died innocent. His excess of honesty was too much for this body politic! But he is not guilty of hubris surely!! See the site: britannica. and better: planetpapers.

Silence is not a crime; it was his defence; he had no other options. Our silence in the face of evil, such as allowed the Holocaust, is evil.

Hope this helps. see the hamartia / hubris debate

Greg

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Ibsen A Doll's House

Could you help - I am writing an essay about this statement -"A heroes character inevitably leads him or her to conflict with forces he cannot master."  Explain the validity of this statement with reference to A Doll's House and A Man for All Seasons -

Do you have any suggestions Thank you.  2005.

 

Well need any character or temperament get into conflict? No not at all. The majority of people live relatively conscientiously within conventional society.

 

Nora's rebellious nature/ stance/ defense of course led her to conflict with a cruel and uncompromising husband. But she had to leave. That is Ibsen's point - liberation comes in defying the crushing social construct of bourgeois marriage.

 

More too was a principled character: knowing, courageous and fortified. He is not just any character - nor in his mind his conflict was not inevitable as he tried to avoid outright defiance of the Oath of Allegiance. But in end end forces and circumstances conspired to make him take stand. He was a very singular saint.

 

The statement is not universally valid. If people cannot master forces, they accommodate to them or make compromises ("peace at any price"). Some singular people have the moral foresight and the reserves of courage to test those overwhelming forces.

 

I guess More realised after those long years in prison that he would not get out and he had to tell the world his reasons.

The opportunity to meet those overwhelming forces (the cowardice of the bishops and the ruling class) was the Westminster Hall 'trial.' There he did indeed give a coherent argument for his stand.

He was no stranger to conflict and knew that if he could not change history, then history should know his side of the story anyway and let history judge.It does in his favour.

His trial was a show piece anyway.

You will know ADH better than me to quote incidents.

Greg

Thank you for the insightful e-mail comparing the two plays to the quote attached, I do like your thesis: "The statement is not universally valid. If people cannot master forces, they accommodate to them or make compromises ("peace at any price"). Some singular people have the moral foresight and the reserves of courage to test those overwhelming forces." Thank you for any input possible. Once again thank you!

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hi i found your website on helping students on A man for all seasons i have some quotes i have to identify if you can help me out with this i would very much appreciate it. These are the quotes i have to identify:                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. I'm lamenting. I've lost my innocence.     

Rich on compromising his principles to work for Cromwell. he is please with his new situation.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. "No opposition! Your conscience is your own affair; but you are my Chancellor! There, you have my word- I'll leave you out of it. But I don't take it kindly, and I'll have no opposition! "

 

Henry's promise in garden at Chelsea to keep More away from public scrutiny = the king's anger.

                                                                                                                     

3."Buy a man with suffering?"

Peruse the play and look for this key word. Could be More on his paradox.

 

4. Richard Rich became a Knight and Solicitor-General, a Baron and Lord Chancellor, and died in his bed. So did I. And so, I hope will all of you.         

 

Narrator in Epilogue that just men die and unjust men live on to rule the world; politics is tainted.

 

5. I believe, when statesman forsake their own private conscience for the sake of their public duties they lead their country by a short route to chaos. And we Shall have my prayers to fall back on.              

More in exasperation

                                                                                                                                                     

 

6. "But Man he made to serve him wittily, in the tangle of his mind! if he suffers us to fall to such a case that there is no escaping, then we many stand to our tackle as best we can...But it's God's part, not our own, to bring ourselves to that extremity! Our natural business lies in escaping-so let's get home and study this Bill."

   

More to Meg mid play at the attempt to circumvent the inevitable. Believing there may still be a way to take the oath honestly ie without equivocation

7. The 16th century of the Common Man. Like all the other centuries.           

Common man's Introduction to the play Prologue

orientation of audience to the drama to follow                                                                                                      

 

8. Look at those names. You nkow those men! Can't you do what i did, and come with us, for fellowship?                

Norfolk urging More to leave off his principled stand and to side with the bishops and nobles and take the oath

9.   Why Richard, it profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world. But for Wales!  

More at his 'trial' in Westminster Hall at end of play at the interrogation of Rich.

A dramatic closure on the unethical lie under oath perjury Rich told. Quoting the Gospel passage.

 

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More's courage

> Hey i was wonderin if you could tell me what courage more had, i know where he got it from (his religion) i just can't find ne quotes in the play. I was wonderin if you could show me a few quotes thanks .

 

The Collins English Dictionary (Aust. ed.) defines courage as 'the power or quality of dealing with or facing danger, fear, pain etc.' and "the courage of one's convictions' as 'the confidence to act in acordance with one's beliefs." More certainly showed this quality to a very high degree He knew he was in extreme danger and held fast to what was true to him.

 

Anne Murphy writes: "In time the manner of his dying, with courage and understated humour, won him the admiration of those who did not share his religious convictions. Jonathan Swift regarded him as a "a

person of greatest virtue this kingdom has ever produced." Macauley regarded him as "one of the choice specimens of human wisdom and virtue." p. 305 Great Christian Thinkers: The spiritual heritage of six

key theologians edited Peter Vardy, London: Fount Paperbacks HarperCollins 1996.

 

Book III of his A Dialogue of Comfort Against Tribulation ends with the ideas that "When the discerning heart, conscience, is in the hands of God, love can conquer all, even sickening fear, and lack of courage." Vardy 397

 

In More's Tower experience, he defended his choice with dignity, courage and a lack of bitterness." Vardy 406

 

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Corrigan writes that A Man for all Seasons is more about the time in which it is written than the time about which it is written. To what extent is AMFAS a play for all Seasons?  

Can you PLEASE send me evidence from current affairs and the play to develop my essay.  

I need any info. ASAP, because it is due tomorrow, April 9!!!

I have few resources but the question statement is true as Bolt says in his Preface.

It is not a costume drama or a hagiography but a statement for our times

- Bolt could be called a moralist I suppose for proposing a view about politics and morals to implement by imitation when we leave the theatre.: that is that living by principles is very honourable and challenges us to live by our principles even when it costs us a lot cf. Clinton (Presidency, repute), Mandela (25 years), Mother Theresa, etc. etc. Living by our principles will cost us face, and friends, and financial

loss and so on. But it is inherently honourable and right.

Greg

See also moretalk4.html#era

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Play 's title

 

Hi Greg,

For school we have been asked to write a essay (intro, 2para and conclusion) about the question, "was the title a man for all seasons an appropriate title for this play?" I have searched through your site and have found a fair bit of useful

information but am still struggling to write it all. If you could help in any way at all it would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

Yes it is an appropriate title because Thomas More showed his endurance, perseverance and courage not

just in a one day battle but over a fair few years on the one issue:

• He had to endure misunderstanding by....
• He showed his persistence in .....
• He showed his moral courage in sticking to his principles through think and thin, through many good seasons and bad, through bad times and good and eventually died for his witness.

On 2 April 2002

Hi Greg, First, thank you for your website. It is such a help.

 

I have an essay to do on the play as to why Sir Thomas More was a man for all seasons. I have read all

the questions on your site regarding the title and they have partially helped. My teacher is asking for three

different examples of why More was a man for all seasons. I have the first one (he refused to back down

from his belief that the king should not be divorced.) What are the other two?

 

OK one plan might be:

1. He refused to back down from his belief that the king should not be divorced.

2. model for others, for us today - living by principle is an inseason and out of season constant

3. not sheer blind bloody Refusal but a stand on Principle for rights and justice and precedence

what he thought were eternal constants were not unfortunately.

 

Greg

Hope this helps

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Real reason vs apparent reason

 

> Any help you could offer would be much appreciated.

> What was the real reason that More was sentenced and what was the apparent

> reason?

> Thank you

 

 

Real reason: More 's silence was eloquent and Henry could not bear to have any opposition.

 

He needed badly urgently needed legitimacy and More refused to give it.

It was bullying, high politics, lawlessness, autonomy, etc.

 

Apparent reason?

Hard to say - everyone knew the real reason from the trial where he said it all.

There was no suspicion of collusion with Spain, no one could say he was an agent of the pope although he sided with the traditional way

It seems his lawyer's mind was too fine an instrument in this rough and raw world.

Greg

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> I have a focus question that I have to answer and I am not clear on the response.

> Question: "On a number of occasions Sir Thomas More is tempted to a course of action repugnant to his nature. State briefly four such occasions and discuss his reaction to each of them."

> Thank you.

Yes this is asking you to plot the play. Note these important decisions More did not want to make:

• breaking friendship with Norfolk
• disagreeing with the King at Chelsea
• continuing to disagree with the king and not being able to find common ground with him
• disagreeing with Margaret in the Tower
• leaving home and Alice

etc.

Greg

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Hey thanx for the great site!

I have to do an essay really soon relating 'A Man For All Seasons' to Harper Lee's 'To Kill A Mockingbird'

The ideals in both are moral courage, standing up for what you believe in and so on. I was hoping you could give me some quotes or tell me themes I may have missed.

Thanx heaps!

 

Wed, 18 Apr 2001

Dear Greg,

My topic for my English independent is to compare/contrast the tragic heroes in King Lear, and A Man for All Seasons. Do you think that I have enough proof that More is a tragic hero using Aristotle's definition of a tragic hero? Please send some proof if you could.

 

 

Well perhaps use the ever helpful grid

Characteristic	A Man for All Seasons, Bolt 1963	To Kill A Mockingbird, Harper Lee 1960	Shakespeare's King Lear 1606
major characters	More, Cromwell, Rich	Atticus, Jem Scout, Mayella Ewell	Lear, Fool, Cordelia, Kent
minor characters	Margaret, Alice,	Aunt Alexandra, Calpurnia, Miss Maudie	Regan, Goneril, Albany, Oswald,
antagonist(s)	King, Cromwell, Rich	Boo Radley, Maycomb whites	himself, Edmund, Edgar
setting	Henry VIII London 1560s; Reformation, Hampton Court, The House of Commons, The Tower of London.	post Depression US South, New Deal Reconstruction, Maycomb, Finch's Landing, "The Maycomb jail's . . . fantasy was heightened by its red brick façade and the thick steel bars at its ecclesiastical windows (p. 152).	preChristian England, a godless world, an arbitrary world, a disillusioned world, a world where a king is derelict of his duty,. a world dreading a doom
dramatic issue, engine of action	King's marriage, divorce, religio-political legalism	racial prejudice, race relations in South	redemption of Lear, evils flows from dereliction of duty
point of view perspective	Bolt's moralising exemplar More's growing sense of his own destiny	Miss Lee's empathetic Caucasian view Scout a little girl's puzzlement, hurt and enlightenment journey from fear to caring.	We get Lear's perspective, we side with Kent's good perspective, we have an ironic perspective on post-Elizabethan England, and we have one on our own contemporary world
ethical culture.	compliance with the king, sanction of traitor, the rule of law is paramount, protects everyone even the Devil himself.	open racism, corruption of kangaroo court, All men are created equal " '...absence of any corroborative evidence, this man was indicted on a capital charge and is now on trial for his life...(p. 204).'	Play shows hat happens when any ethical culture is lacking. Goneril and Regan deny their duties to their father, they overcome their good sister, they display greed, intolerance, lasciviousness, ambition, cruelty
crucial lies	Cromwell's falsified evidence at the trial	"'e chunked me on the floor an' choked me'n took advantage of me (p. 183).' "	that Cordelia does not love him. that the sisters do, that Kent is disloyal
moral courage	conscience, more principles, rule of law	conscience, moral principles, rule of law " 'This case, Tom Robinson's case, is something that goes to the essence of a man's conscience...(p. 109).' "	Gloucester and Lear finally find some but it is too late They suffer for their willful lack of sight and insight
idioms	in the thickets of the law I am a forester	"bowed to the inevitable (p. 84) "nigger lover." when the chips are down: "The Governor was eager to scrape a few barnacles off the ship of state...(p. 118)." a slow fuse see metaphor analysis	running metaphors
motif	A fair weather friend is cheap; we all admire a man for all seasons.	remember it's a sin to kill a mockingbird,' " = cruelty is easy, some major things seem easy; bird is innocent.	eyes, sight
resolution	court hearing in the Commons, unjust sentencing to death of More	trial hearing, proved the lie, unjust committal of Tom Robinson, Ewell shot	the bad win, the good suffer, the kingdom suffers
emblems, symbols	bribe Italian silver cup, hunter in thickets of the law, falcon, candle,	lyre soap., kerosene, knothole of an old tree, wild dog, Atticus' gun,	heath, eyes, knights, crown

© G. Smith 5 March 2001, 19 April Source: home.pacific.net.au/~greg.hub/moretalk2.html#bird

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Do you have any high quality academic essays on the use of figurative language (metaphor) in "A Man For All Seasons" that discusses theme development and characterization? 

 

No essays sorry. Just explore the metaphors of the falcon, the river , tides, etc.

For this, see longer discussion with Shannon below on metaphors. Reply on tides

See also references and discussion at symbolism in A Man for All Seasons. and goblet.

 

16 April 2002, I was assigned to write an essay on A.M forA.S. I want to write the essay on the water

symbolism, but I'm not sure where to start. I don't know how to get my 3 main points.

Should I use the symbolism for three characters?

 

First, Write a topic for yourself that you can answer: e.g.,

Bolt's play, A Man for All Seasons, is enriched for using the metaphor and symbolism of

water. It is central for understanding setting and character development. Discuss

 

So three points could be

 

1. water and the river as a metaphor for the changing socil and political environment

of Tudor England (setting)

 

2. water is a rich metaphor in conveting Bolt's central message about integrity

(the cupped hands and perjury) [character]

 

3. Water is a Christian symbol of life and one used appropriately in this play

 

Greg

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A person's or a society's cultural identity is often complex and hard to define. Discuss how a man for all seasons explores problems of cultural identity?

Would it possible for you to post a response to this question on your website because I am stuck

Thanks

 

This sounds like a 20th century problem in a multicultural world. More certainly had few problems with cultural identity. It was just that circumstances were changing the culture round him faster than he could, as we say, "adapt" to it. In fact, he knew this - the Reformation was under way, and as a Christian scholar, he was in ready contact with Erasmus, and as a Councillor of State knew all about Dr. Luther. What is interesting is that he took a personal step not to go with the flow, to stand up for what he thought was right. He knew that the polarity of the culture needed a second strong lightning rod, round which to recollect energy/ wisdom/ restore traditional sobriety. He remarkably was willing to take the consequences even to death, like his divine Master.

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How does Margaret feels about her father?

Proud, admiring, loving, dismayed (over Roper), trusting, confused, puzzled, angry, frantic, desperate, . . . . . . .

Suggest you just finish the list with references to incidents and scenes in the play.

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about a man for all seasons.

I have to identify as many qualities as I can about Sir Thomas More and give an example to illustrate each

one. please e-mail ASAP because it is due on Monday April 2nd! thanks!!

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  I have to pick one character, other than More, from the video A man for all seasons, and write 3 quotes that they said and their importance and then discuss what you see as being the philosophy of your character.  I was wondering if you could tell me three quotes and what their importance was and the philosophy of the character.

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> Dear Greg

>

> I have been given an essay on A Man for All Seasons. This task is as

> follows;

> Robert Bolts' A Man for All Seasons is an exploration of an individuals

> sense of self and its implications to a wider social context. Bolt's message

> to his audience is best expressed when he says:

>

> "A man takes an oath only when he wants to commit himself quite exceptionally

> to the statement, when he wants to make an identity between the truth of it

> and his virtue, he offers himself as a guarantee."

>

> Respond with specific reference to the quote using characters, themes and

> evidence from A Man for All Seasons.

>

> I am using the focus of "what is an oath?" If there are any ideas that you

> have in mind on the task any help would be greatly appreciated.

>

> Thanking you

 

 

Yes oath is a good start; guarantee is another.

Suggest you agree with the topic.

Bolt's purpose to dramatise a man of principle to his contemporaries

By way of the negative side, you might assess how relevant this is today - how too legalistic it is, too heroic, remote, impersonal, religious for say 1990s people too.

Greg

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I am writing to you because I have to write a profile on a minor character.  I have to write about Alice and it must be at least two paragraphs.  I don't have any information on her.  if you could

> please email me back asap with info as it is due tomorrow.

> thank you very much

 

The stage directions are good sources of information.

She is his second wife; she is robust matronly, illiterate but loud spoken.

He loves her very dearly

Re read the visit to the Tower to pick up her defiance

She is not a big player in the drama

Greg

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> I've been recently set a main course work essay on 'A man for all

> seasons'- with the title How does Robert Bolt bring history to life in

> 'A man for all seasons'? I don't know how to begin to plan or write this

> could you give me an idea of what to do?

 

 

G'day to you too Pete

this drama does bring history to life in a theatre of the times by representing theological conflicts in Tudor England as they appear to mid 20th century English speaking peoples

Bolt is no historian but a dramatist . History is intrigue and treason

Audiences do relive it. Write how audiences feel as they watch and how they react and who they

side with and so on

Greg

 

 

hiya, I understand that you help ppl with their questions on the play "a man for all seasons". I can't say it is my favourite play but I enjoy studying it all the less. The coursework question I have been given is as follows, "In What Ways Does Robert Bolt Bring History To Life In "A Man For All Seasons".

To be honest with you I am stumped. my teacher also said that the following

points were useful. here they are:- consider: the way the story unfolds through drama

the interest of individual characters

the interaction between characters

the use of debate and argument

the role of the common man

 

The last one about the common man I can do as it was described on your site.

do you have any useful notes or suggestions. it is due in in two weeks so I

need the notes or help pretty urgently.

all my gratitude

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26 March 2001. I have an assignment to do, and I have to compare More to three other

characters in the play and discuss how others sacrifice their principles.

So far, I have Rich, Cromwell and Common man. Are these good people to

compare with More? And if so, how would I go about outlining my essay?

 

Remember common man does not compromise any for he has few to compromise.

It is the principals who compromise their principles: Cromwell, Rich, Norfolk even Henry to an extent.

 

Define "compromise" = make accommodations to the facts, dilute their resistance to the King, bend with the times, go with the flow, reject traditional views, deny their true selves, prefer survival over salvation, etc. The metaphors may offer degrees of "compromise."

 

Trait	More	Cromwell	Rich	King
cue, reason, justification, engine for action	man of principle	man of the world, "flexible", "ear of the King"	ambition, opportunity, no integrity to lose, principles don't bring bread	affairs of State, permit it survival of the Tudor line, right to have an heir, bully pretext in Leviticus
view of conscience	innermost voice of God	what works best	public fooled, hands off me	semblance with dignity
result, degree of compromise	refuses to - death	as far as possible	ends justify means, Red Dragon of Wales dies dishonoured	got his way got his bride(s) put friends to death

© G. Smith 2001 March 26

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> I am doing an essay for my class and I have a question. How do the characters of the common man (jailer, steward, boatman, etc.)help us to understand the theme? Or an analysis of the common man's characters as a means of understanding the play.

 

Hi Shanny

This format is based on the Greek chorus in ancient Greek theatre.

they reviewed action, anticipated action, discussed /reviewed themes

distilled loyalties etc.

The boatman, Matthew, etc. all react to the events in different and yet

predictable ways as butchers, workers, artisans would

Feudal society nobles and gentleman above all the rest; no affairs of

the common people

Suggest you also reread his Preface to see Bolt's own assessment of this device.

Cheers. See my page on the common man and also my reply at publican.

Greg

 

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3/18/01 Hello Greg,

> I just finished the play and I was approached by this question: was Thomas More

> truly a Renaissance man? was he really a man ahead of his time...or a just a

> man who did not want to follow hypocrisy.

> thanks,

 

He was all this

He was a scholar and so critical of corruption in the church

He was not blinded by ideologies

He was a servant of the king and Pope too

He rejected Roper's Lutheranism

He rejected compromises

He was medieval in his stand on principle

Hope this helps

Greg

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25 Feb 2002 I have been asked to write an essay on Conflict of Reason versus Passion

comparing the protagonists in A Man for all Seasons and Shakespeare's Othello. Please

be kind enough to give me some advice on how to set about it and what are the main

points I should compare in the characters of Sir Thomas More and Othello. An outline of

the essay is due by the end of the week. Many thanks.

 

Reason (Thomas More) More absolutely unselfish, living by principle for the church, for the enlightenment of others. for the future, for God and Goodness, denying himself even his own life	Passion (Henry VIII, Othello) Othello driven by jealousy, scheming, devious, self satisfying. See my notes on Othello
starts in order	starts in impulse
driven by control, goals	driven by emotion, directionless
justified by external criteria, references outside itself	self-justifying, self referencing
target is welfare of the community; thus history, precedent, tradition guide and result	target is self, individualistic, carpe diem (opportunistic), erratic
outcomes: principles reinforced, rule of law, balance even compromise, future vector	outcome is satisfaction, vanity, domination, present directed, limited scope

© G Smith 2002

 

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20 Mar 2001:

 

The question presented was " Define symbolism. Find five examples of this device and show clearly the appropriateness of each."...So far I've figured the silver cup, the Red Dragon Necklace, and the candle,

but as for the other two, I'm not to sure.

 

Hi Grant. I guess

1. the chain of office is very important,

2. the candle end of Act 1, 4. (suggestion of torture, extinguishes innocence, end of medieval ages)

3. the river = time, eddies of politics (constant changes, no map to find a way, shifting sands)

4. noose, blade to cut off More's head (instrument of finality. power, earthly fate, etc.)

5. custard tarts (domesticity, futility, details rejected, body versus soul)

6. falcons/falconry: (playfulness indifference of upper classes, unpredictability).

 

I was just wondering what symbolism do the candle at the end of act 1 and the falconry represent in the play. I got some info from the answers but can you go into a little more depth?

thanks

 

It is a very verbal play, is historical, stiff, has morality play flavour;

with very little physical action so this extinguishing the candle is dramatic as well as symbolic:

this action foreshadows future plot

 

Removing light as the Enlightenment dawns is also worth noting - could be seen as

a reversion to the bad old days of autocratic kings & bad deeds done dirt cheap.

 

Falconry audience of the ordinary course of nature - predator and prey.

It is a dangerous sport with wild animals about fighting and death:

betokens mortality, major issues in this play.

 

See also replies on symbolism at:

five symbols

metaphors

reading symbols

goblet

Greg

 

On 22 March 2002 My question is: how are the images of land and water used to amplify theme. I guess the theme is the strength of the moral beliefs of the charcters. i have no clue what to do and this is due

tomorrow I really need help. thanks

 

They act as images of the moral beliefs, commitment, stand and endurance of More.

No other character showed that remarkable achievement.

Even though he died for it does not take away its excellence.

Images of water do consciously amplify the theme in

as words like eddies, currents, tides, flow round this fixed point of More.

While he stand stolid for the traditional values. amid the ever-changing politics, argument, compromises and shenaggigans Cromwell orchestrates.

 

The imagery is is fact a bit confused that is it is not consistent in the text e.g.,

Henry is captain of the great ship of state steering her up the river into the future

but does that mean More is alone on the shore, the bank/ a riparian marker/warning marker/ moral beacon for the journey?

No Henry ignored his moral lead and went ahead.

The rest is history as they say. See also reply to George on tides

Greg

 

More on symbolism 2003

Hi Greg, theres a few questions i dun't really understand in the play mainly on the water symbols? I'm writing a test next week and I hope you can give me some ideas on these questions. Thanks.

 

How does Bolt's use of water imagery encapsulate one of the central conflicts of the play?

 

Mud is a mix of water and land, but what is the significance of it? And what is the significance of King Henry stepping into the mud? I wish i didn't have to understand all these symbols but that's what my test will be mainly on... symbols and imagery...My teacher asked how does the symbols help us understand the play and the themes in the play better? I just think it makes it more abstract cuz you have to first understand what they mean.

 

Also, what are some possible themes do you think I can develop with the symbols (such as water, land, common man, silver cup, falcon, lion, etc) because i think i will also have to write an essay during my test.

 

I suggest you beware of getting carried away with symbolism If it does not strike you as a meaning at first, don't push the meaning too far.

Water, whirlpools, tides, etc. all indicate the unreliable times, there is no (or diminishing few anyway) fixed routines, fixed point of reference any more in Henry's politics Cromwell makes the most of this unrest; this tidal change in affairs. So the water/river imagery comes readily to mind to suggest these meanings. But even that is flawed as the land (the King) is meant to be reliable firm having/giving direction. but not so King is volatile,unpredictable, cruel etc.

The old saying, monkey say monkey do means that the King has the court in his hand and so jumping the mud says they all have to, as indeed they do on the film. Mud is unforeseen, clings, stench, of uncertain depth and duration so the King as mud (made of land and water) is not a bad idea but not explored in the play methinks

 

 

To help, read my replies already at symbols and metaphors and fire and metaphor

Of course they are not necessary to understand the play, but are real enhancements to support the messages themes and setting. More abstract yes but more enduring, and are reference points the text can echo, refer to again and gain with reinforcing emotional effects. Symbols are part of drama; and drama would be just realism without

symbols. With symbols drama aspires to speak universally across times and cultures Paradox is symbols are culture-bound anyway. Glad to help if I can.

Greg

See also talk at five

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3/3/01 Can you tell me some good site to help me find info on the characters, like what make More so important, his actions, speech and what people say about him?

> > Same with the minor characters

Could you tell me where I can find a profile on More the other characters to explain why they are so important: Was it how they act? OR how they spoke? Thanks George

Try Coles A Man for All Seasons Notes London 1963

Methuen A Man for All Seasons Notes London 1976

Brodie's A Man for All Seasons Notes London 1979

 

> > Dear Greg,

> > Thank you so much for helping me with the last questions.

> > They were a great help.

> > I am doing an assignment and I need to Write a profile on the most major

> > character in the play and on the minor character of the play.

> > Do you have a clue who they may be?

 

Major characters: More Henry

Minor s: Rich Norfolk Alice Margaret Roper

Is Cromwell major or minor?? He is hardly the antagonist or equal to More so minor.

 

1) The likes of me can hardly be expected to follow the processes of a man like that...(sly) can we?" How is this intended to affect the audience?

 

Sarcasm would be understood by the audience. Dramatic irony at work here

The audience are meant to be repulsed by someone who cannot understand sainthood.

Sounds like the speaker (Cromwell?) prefers to be too lazy or too deliberately ignorance to understand a man of principle, More. In fact he is not hard to follow or understand: his stand is clear enough if not detailed for all to read.

2)"Sir Thomas is a man" How does Cromwell define "man"?

Refer medieval humanism in moretalk.html#humanism

For Cromwell " a man' means he has weaknesses; it is a statment of a challenge to get at him, to find the weak spot(s), his Achilles heel and to bring him down by it. However he fails.

He achieves with Rich of course.

But to More, 'a man' is clearly someone weak yet principled, a man of his society, a man of repute, a man of the world, a man of his own mind, a gentleman, brave, courageous, of substance in hard times and good.

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02 Mar 2001. My question of my essay is: More's logic: for More, was it a legal congruity even to death, consistency with others, faithfulness to one's own principles, obedience to laws, or what.? How do I write the outline and essay of this matter.?. Thank you very much.

 

This is a good question for it tests your knowledge of the character, history and the plot.

More as a lawyer saw things in legal ways and may have transferred that frame of mind to the theological matters. I say "might" because of course the play does not tell us plainly. It dramatises a man's dilemma when two legal systems conflict. More is forced to choose. He did not shrink from doing so either remember. The swirling opinions, theological political and salvational, if I may put it, were chaotic, unpredictable, ill-founded and outside the conventional - making it up as they went.

So More has to tread softly. But he did not engage in this new compromise abroad throughout the land

to enter the drift to tyranny by Henry VIII.

His legal logic finally gave way and he had to stick to the only logic - that was a compass, his conscience

Not a bad choice don't you think? In this sense he is modern and in that dilemma he is medievalist at the

same time. Greg

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Wed, 28 Feb 2001. I was hoping that you could maybe help me with an assignment I have to

> do. I have to find out what the relevance A Man For All Seasons has to teenagers.

> I thought about the leader ship roles and the religion but I'm pretty stuck with this topic. Your help would be greatly appreciated. hope to hear from ya

 

Like everyone teenagers need real example of moral responsibility

We do need our heroes, saints, exemplars who live out a theory on principle. Teenagers respect risky behaviour and he tried to play it out safely. Alas Silence was not his protection. More was eminently courageous too

Greg

 

Yes all you say is right . . in Aristotelian categories. But if tragic is used loosely (as in a tragic train crash) it was a great shame for England he could not live to guide Henry to better paths

It is also great for England to have such a moral exemplar / saint. Out of a tragic loss of life springs principles and human courage to imitate.

Greg

 

On 2 April 2002:

Well like everyone I had to read AMFAS.. and well I have to write and essay and I choose the topic "The real hero of the play is More" and was wondering if you had any good quotes from the book and any good evidence for my essay. I don't really have any set main points for it but if you had any in mind that would go with the proof it to would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

A plan might go like this:

1. What is a hero

moral exemplar? someone to lift our spirits? someone to admire someone to follow? to give our lives for?

2. Moral heroism is a lonely path - few follow here

3. Rewards of heroism

luck, opportunity, maintenance of stand, loss of friends, allies, supporters

 

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I was hoping that you could discuss about the scene in which More deliberately insults Norfolk.What does the insult tell of More's character, and why does he find it necessary to insult his friend?

Also,what effect does this insult have on Norfolk?

 

Norfolk is puzzled and hurt but now 'off the hook'.

And that's the point: they were friends and yet Norfolk did not understand More. He was a practical, pragmatic man, a survivor.

But More was a man who believed in the power of symbolism

and saw his stand inside the highest echelons of Henry's society

as being significant to the Pope to the people and to the nobles.

More unfortunately had no other way of undoing the knot of friendship.

The first time it did not work and later it did.

It showed a great determination:

More was not going into this blind, foolishly or for play.

This was indeed high politics and high religion.

Religion above the notional, conventional, mundane, heroic religion.

Where Wolsey failed, More tried to succeed

and history says he did.

The cost of principle is to lose friends.

Greg

 

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Some study / revision questions came in. Any ideas anyone??

 

In the beginning of act 2 in A Man for All Seasons, I was given a few questions to answer and I was totally stuck with them, could you please help me!

 

1) What changes have occurred to Christianity in England since 1530?

Explain (p.47-48)

 

2) What does Chapuys want of More and Why? (p.51)

 

3) What does the convocation decide? How does More respond?

 

4) "This isn't Spain you know." What does this tell you about Norfolk? (p.53)

 

5)"Poor silly man." What does Alice want More to do? Explain

 

6) How does the case of Catherine Anger comment upon More's sense of morality? (p.59)

 

 

Discuss how two major characters misunderstood More and how each misunderstanding reveals a theme

in the play.

 

or

 

Many of society's heroes are characterized by their tremendous physical strength, romantic appeal,

and/or valor in battle. Write a paper which emphasizes that Sir THomas More is a rather unique hero

since he was not a physically robust figure, slew no "dragons" and was certainly not a romantic figure

who appealed to fair maidens throughout England.

 

My comments:

First, gramatically 'unique' cannot be qulified with 'rather' ; he would be either unique or not.

So you need to show why he is unique: that is, like no other. Superman, Ulysses, Neil Armstrong, etc.

Consult dictionary for meaning of hero and heroism.

More's heroism is in the moral plane alone; usually, as the question suggests, popular heroism is saving maidens from death, that is, a physical act of bravery beyond what ordinary people could do.

The extent and import of his heroism is enhanced by the conflict of king and pope surrounding the issue, a David and Goliath battle between king and subject, the battle of wills of two previous friends, the sheer nerve and persistence of More, his ability to deflect others and his appeal to a higher authority (God) as his justification. His stand was publicly respected (heroism is not private). Good luck with this paper.

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Feb 16  Hey Greg.

I've been asked to write an essay at school referring the theme of Machiavellian Theory to Rich and Cromwell in the play as well as to modern day society.  Please help 'cause I am stuck. 

 

Tue, 13 Feb 2001. I have been assigned the task to explain how the Machiavellian theory relates to the play and am having difficulties on finding anything in the book about it could you please help with relative quotes, characters and any other info on the topic. thanks very much for your help.

 

I understand Machiavellian means: "Any means will do to achieve your goals."

It allows unscrupulous behaviour without rule of law or conscience,

e.g., Cromwell was prepared to torture More in the Tower

He did use mental torture anyway, by taking away his books in the Tower and in the endless legal hearings

I have no materials to offer you right now but try to build on this with events and references.

Perhaps search for Machiavellian on the net and quote him? Greg

 

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