William Julian and Eliza Penny

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Parents      William Julian and Elizabeth Liddicoat                 James  and Jane Penny          Parents of Mary, Elizabeth or Sophia not researched

William Julian (b 1815 Roche Cornwall, m Eliza Penny 1842 Liskeard Cornwall,
                                                                   m Sophia Pascoe 1853 St Columb Cornwall,
                                                                   m Elizabeth Pearce 1874 St Columb, 
                                                                   m Mary Jane Caddy 1888 St Austell Cornwall)
Eliza Penny (b 1818 Liskeard, d 1851 St Columb)
Sophia Pascoe (b 1804 St Columb, d 1874 St Columb)
Elizabeth Pearce (b 1816 Roche, d 1887 St Columb)
Mary Jane Caddy ( b 1834 St Austell  d 1910 St Columb)
    Mary Ann Julian (b 1843 St Columb)
    Richard Julian (b 1845 St Columb, d aft 1860)
    Eliza Julian (b1846 St Columb, m William Henry Tippet 1865 Cornwall, d 1924 Coburg Vic)
        Annie Tippett (b 1879 Fraddon, St Enoder Cornwall, m Herbert Oscar Smalley 1908 North Fitzroy, d 1955 Kew Vic)
    Ellen Julian (b 1849 St Columb, d aft 1860)
    Frederick Julian (b 1850 St Columb, d aft 1860)
    William Henry Julian (b 1851 St Columb, d aft 1860)

Penny, not Renny - Input from Paul Julian

    Eliza Julian's birth certificate shows her mother's maiden name as "Penny". (Her death certificate in Victoria shows her mother's maiden name as "Renny", but that is obviously an error - L Rowley). I have just received a marriage certificate for William Julian and Elizabeth Penny. It gives their marriage as March 24th 1842 in Liskeard, Cornwall. It shows Williams father as William Julian a Blacksmith, and Elizabeth's father as James Penny a Husbandsman.
    This tallies nicely: Lockard in the 1851 census below is Liskeard. Blacksmith fits with William(snr)'s profession of Farrier in the 1841 census

1841 Census

William Senior - Churchtown, Roche
William JULIAN           55       Farrier
Elizabeth JULIAN        50
Robert  JULIAN            20
Richard  JULIAN          15
Catherine JULIAN        30  Dressmaker(?)
Joseph JULIAN              10
Elizabeth  JULIAN         11
This is the parents of William (b 1815) - brother Joseph is the link to the 1851 family of William Jnr.
In 1841, William jnr is a carpenter in Gossmoor, St Columb Major (Susan Old).- though I cant find him in Ancestry(LR)
Both William and Joseph check in the LDS as part of this family. Joseph was christened in 1831 in Roche, William in Roche in 1815, parents William and Elizabeth.

Susan Old supplied Eliza Penny's 1841 census entry, She was working as a servant of Elizabeth Glencross in Dean St, Liskeard, aged 20

We can also find James family in Barn St, Liskeard, all born in the county
James PENNY  50 Ag Lab
Jane PENNY 56
Mary PENNY 14
Maria PENNY 10
William PENNY 8

1851 Census

Parish of St Columb Major,  Middle Gossmoor Road :      (Goss Moor is an area about 3 miles SE of St Columb Major)
William JULIAN       Head      Mar     35       Carpenter            Roche Cornwall (abt 1815)  
Elizabeth JULIAN     Wife       Mar     33                                  Lockard  (abt 1817)
Maryann JULIAN     Dau                      8        Scholar              St Columb, CON  (abt 1842)
Richard JULIAN       Son                      6        Scholar              St Columb, CON  (abt 1844)
Eliza JULIAN            Dau                      4        Scholar              St Columb, CON  (abt 1846)
Ellen JULIAN            Dau                      3        Scholar              St Columb, CON  (abt 1847)
Frederick JULIAN     Son                     1         Scholar              St Columb, CON  (abt 1849)
Joseph JULIAN         Brother              19         Carpenter          Roche Cornwall (abt 1831)

In Barn St, Liskeard
James PENNY  63,  b Liskeard, Ag Lab
Jane PENNY 62,  b Liskeard,
Mary PENNY 24,  b Liskeard, Dressmaker
William PENNY 18,  b Liskeard, Grocers apprentice

1861 Census

Parish of St Columb Major, Road : Goss More    Where Born
William JULIAN       Head        Mar     45       Carpenter                Roche, CON (abt 1815)
Sophia JULIAN        Wife         Mar     56                                      St Columb, CON  (abt 1804)
Richard JULIAN       Son                      16        Carpenter               St Columb, CON  (abt 1844)
Eliza JULIAN            Dau                     15        Dressmaker            St Columb, CON  (abt 1845)
Ellen JULIAN            Dau                     13         Scholar                  St Columb, CON  (abt 1847)
Frederick JULIAN     Son                     11         Scholar                  St Columb, CON  (abt 1849)
William Henry JULIAN  Son                  10        Scholar                   St Columb, CON  (abt 1850)
This has to be our Eliza..In the 1871 Census she has married William Tippett and is living next door. Her DC gives father as Carpenter. While her DC gives Eliza as her mother, Sophia could be a second wife after Eliza died? Maryann has left home at eighteen.
Also our Eliza called her children William, Henry, Ellen, Frederick  among her ten children
Roche is about 5 miles ESE of St Columb Major

In Barn St, Liskeard
James PENNY  73,  b St Cleer, Labourer
Jane PENNY 71,  b Liskeard,
St Cleer is a smaller town a couple of miles north of Liskeard

1871 Census

Parish of St Columb Major,  Road  :   Gos Morr Hamlet          Where Born                                                                                                                         
William JULIAN      Head     Mar      56       Carpenter              Roche, CON (abt 1814)
Sophia JULIAN       Wife      Mar      65                                    St Columb, CON  (abt 1805)
William JULIAN      Son                    19        Carpenter             St Columb, CON  (abt 1849)
Next door   
William TIPPETT     Head     Mar       27       Master Mason       St Columb, CON (abt 1843)
Eliza TIPPETT         Wife      Mar        25                                   St Columb, CON  (abt 1845)
Ernest TIPPETT       Son                       4                                   St Enoder, CON  (abt 1867)
Ellen TIPPETT         Dau                       2                                   St Columb, CON  (abt 1869)
Rhoda TIPPETT       Dau                     1 Mon                            St Columb, CON  (abt 1871)

Could not find James or Jane Penny

1881 Census

Parish of St Columb Major       Road   Goss More             Where Born
William JULIAN       Head      Mar       66       Carpenter      Roche, CON (abt 1814)
Elizabeth JULIAN     Wife       Mar       65                            Roche, , CON  (abt 1815)

1891 census

Parish of St Columb Major       Road   Goss More             Where Born
William JULIAN      Head       Mar      76       Carpenter, local preacher   Roche, CON (abt 1815)
Mary J JULIAN       Wife        Mar      57                                              St Austell , CON  (abt 1833)

Acknowledgemets

Thanks to Susan Old, Online Parish Clerk for St Columb Major, who confirmed partsof our tree, and added new information. I was not completely confident  of the four wives, but they stood up to her checking

Research Notes

Genes Reunited checked for William and Eliza
Note Elizabeth Thomazina Julian b 1845, (note on file, died 1846) is not our Eliza.
    One disconcerting contact was John Matthews in Genes Reunited. He hasWilliam  Julian, b 1815 Roche, who also married an Elizabeth. However the continuity of address in the census from 1841 to 1891  looks solid.. So I will stick with the story as laid out above. Vanessa Tapson also has this "other William"  tree on Genes Reunited
    Two 1841 Census Images, probably not relevant
Image A
Bottom left  -  Francis JULIAN 40 blacksmith, Mary 35, Elizabeth 20, Louisa 15, Mary 7
Top right (next entry)  -  John JULIAN 50 tinner, Frances 40, William 22, John 20, Absolom 14 Ann 10,  Richard 8?, Nancy? 5
Image B
Welvor, Breage,  William JULIAN  45 Labourer on Tin, Eliza 40, William JULIAN  15  Labourer on Tin, James JULIAN  15  Labourer on Tin, Grace 6, Elizabeth 2, Rosenia 1

Research Notes on William Julian's Parents

    Paul Julian has Elizabeth Liddicoat as his mother, from a marriage at Roche in 1804. This is not in LDS, but was obtained from the parish records, and looks the best bet?  See the Roche OPC website. There is an alternate marriage for William (snr) and Elizabeth - a marriage in 1807 at Lusculyan, four miles ESE of Roche to Elizabeth Roach. But their children are quite probably the ones being born in Lanlivery, a mile or so from Luxulyan. Finding the Liddicoat family in the 1851 census removes the last doubts

Follow up on these four wives after Susan Old's suggestions

1842 William Julian m Eliza Penny
1851 Census   Eliza Julian (b 1818 Liskeard)
1851 2Q   Death of Elizabeth Julian registered in St Columb  - Free BMD Index
Sophia Pascoe (b 1804 St Columb, d 1874 St Columb)
1853 3Q Sophia Pascoe m William Julian (source FTW file ex Susan Old)
1861 Census  Sophia Julian ((b St Columb aged 56)
1871 Census  Sophia Julian (b St Columb aged 65)
1874 2Q Death of Sophia Julian
1874 2Q William Julian m Elizabeth Pearce in St Columb (5C157) - Free BMD Index
            (1871 Census Elizebeth Pearce b 1816 Roche is living with husband John in Roche
              can't find a death for John Pearce that matches prior to 1874 but the census match for Elizabeth is good
              cannot find either John or Elizabeth Pearce in the 1881 Census, which makes sense)
            1878 3Q Elizabeth Julian dies St Columb aged 55 (5C60) - Free BMD Index (*** Furphy see below)
1881 Census  Elizabeth Julian (b Roche aged 65)
           1881 William Julian m Elizabeth Sophia Tippett in St Columb 2Q on same page (5C131) - Free BMD Index  (*** Furphy see below)
1887 4Q Elizabeth Julian d St Columb aged 72 - Free BMD Index
1888 1Q William Julian m Mary Jane Caddy in St Austel  (5C148) - Free BMD Index
1891 Census  Mary J Julian (b St Austell aged 57)
1897 4Q William Julian d in St Columb - Free BMD Index
1901 Census Mary J Julian (b St Austell aged 69), living in St Enoder - about 5 miles south of St Columb. She is living on her own. living on own means
1910 1Q Mary Jane Julian d in St Columb aged 78 - Free BMD Index

***Furphy - For a while I thoiught there was a fifth wife, but the 1874 marriage/1881 Census//1887 death/1888 remarriage all tie together neatly
A quick look in Ancestry trees gave nothing on any of the four wives

Acknowledgemets

Thanks to Susan Old (St Columb OPC) and Arthur Wilkins (Roche OPC)
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